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	<title>Comments on: L2Discpline: Growing Your Talent Tree</title>
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	<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/</link>
	<description>Double the Bubble, with a dash of Shine and a hint of Sparkle</description>
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		<title>By: Discipline Priest Resources &#171; Soul Warding</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>Discipline Priest Resources &#171; Soul Warding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 02:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-504</guid>
		<description>[...] Discipline: Introduction (Talents) (Glyphs) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Discipline: Introduction (Talents) (Glyphs) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-500</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-500</guid>
		<description>Great Post.... Seriously a great guide.. will definitely help out..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Post&#8230;. Seriously a great guide.. will definitely help out..</p>
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		<title>By: Lilitharien</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilitharien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-163</guid>
		<description>@Ellanelia: No, I&#039;ve never experienced this problem with paladin tanks (and I&#039;m usually healing one as my guild&#039;s MT/RL is a paladin) &lt;em&gt;except&lt;/em&gt; on the General Vezax fight where mana regeneration is severely limited. It shouldn&#039;t be a worry anywhere else. You should &lt;em&gt;definitely&lt;/em&gt; have Divine Aegis in your talent tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ellanelia: No, I&#8217;ve never experienced this problem with paladin tanks (and I&#8217;m usually healing one as my guild&#8217;s MT/RL is a paladin) <em>except</em> on the General Vezax fight where mana regeneration is severely limited. It shouldn&#8217;t be a worry anywhere else. You should <em>definitely</em> have Divine Aegis in your talent tree.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellanelia</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellanelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-162</guid>
		<description>I was told that Divine Aegis is something I can remove from my build because Paladin tanks have trouble generating mana -- and therefore threat when they are bubbled. I guess this is because they regen mana from heals. Is this much a problem for most paladin tanks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was told that Divine Aegis is something I can remove from my build because Paladin tanks have trouble generating mana &#8212; and therefore threat when they are bubbled. I guess this is because they regen mana from heals. Is this much a problem for most paladin tanks?</p>
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		<title>By: Lilitharien</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilitharien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-145</guid>
		<description>@Haruki, I&#039;ve honestly never looked at it that way. It makes sense, and I can see the benefits as you list them, but I don&#039;t think that the 10% spell damage reduction is equivalent to 10% more health. Not all damage is spell damage and there are definitely many things that it won&#039;t save you from if you don&#039;t get healed and/or are not careful.

@Seriah, I have seen priests do that! Thanks for reminding me to point it out.

@Mediocredreams, What if you already have Weakened Soul? I usually keep PW:S on me throughout the entire fight, not just on ohshit! moments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Haruki, I&#8217;ve honestly never looked at it that way. It makes sense, and I can see the benefits as you list them, but I don&#8217;t think that the 10% spell damage reduction is equivalent to 10% more health. Not all damage is spell damage and there are definitely many things that it won&#8217;t save you from if you don&#8217;t get healed and/or are not careful.</p>
<p>@Seriah, I have seen priests do that! Thanks for reminding me to point it out.</p>
<p>@Mediocredreams, What if you already have Weakened Soul? I usually keep PW:S on me throughout the entire fight, not just on ohshit! moments.</p>
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		<title>By: mediocredreams</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-129</link>
		<dc:creator>mediocredreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-129</guid>
		<description>Pushback is a bigger issue in Ulduar, although you still run into it in fights like Beasts, Anub and Champions.  This is doubly true in hardmodes.  I couldn&#039;t imagine not having at least 1 point in it in those fights.

As far as Desperate Prayer saying lives, I&#039;ll admit it doesn&#039;t do that to me.  I so rarely used it before getting rid of it.  I just cast PW:S on myself during oshi- moments, since it&#039;s hot keyed already anyway.  *shrugs*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pushback is a bigger issue in Ulduar, although you still run into it in fights like Beasts, Anub and Champions.  This is doubly true in hardmodes.  I couldn&#8217;t imagine not having at least 1 point in it in those fights.</p>
<p>As far as Desperate Prayer saying lives, I&#8217;ll admit it doesn&#8217;t do that to me.  I so rarely used it before getting rid of it.  I just cast PW:S on myself during oshi- moments, since it&#8217;s hot keyed already anyway.  *shrugs*</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-121</guid>
		<description>Spending that one point in Desperate Prayer isn&#039;t so much about trusting your healers, but having that one extra emergency button. I can&#039;t tell you how many times it&#039;s saved my arse, particularly in fights where we&#039;re split into distinct groups (Iron Council and the Twins come to mind). I say, do what you can to spare the healers: I&#039;d rather we didn&#039;t waste time running to each other for healing. 

I do agree with Haruki.  Pushback is so, SO rare in raid encounters. The only time it&#039;s ever been an annoyance is during Faction Champions, and bubbling myself nips that problem. It&#039;s a waste of points - I dump mine in Spell Warding for survivability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spending that one point in Desperate Prayer isn&#8217;t so much about trusting your healers, but having that one extra emergency button. I can&#8217;t tell you how many times it&#8217;s saved my arse, particularly in fights where we&#8217;re split into distinct groups (Iron Council and the Twins come to mind). I say, do what you can to spare the healers: I&#8217;d rather we didn&#8217;t waste time running to each other for healing. </p>
<p>I do agree with Haruki.  Pushback is so, SO rare in raid encounters. The only time it&#8217;s ever been an annoyance is during Faction Champions, and bubbling myself nips that problem. It&#8217;s a waste of points &#8211; I dump mine in Spell Warding for survivability.</p>
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		<title>By: mediocredreams</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>mediocredreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-107</guid>
		<description>I agree with Haruki, especially on the matter of hardmodes.  Generally, I recommend taking the points of of Imp. Renew for it.  I also don&#039;t take Desperate Prayer (I trust my healers :D), which puts me at 4/5 Soul Warding.  For Firefighter, that plus self bubbles plus pally aura and GotW just help so very much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Haruki, especially on the matter of hardmodes.  Generally, I recommend taking the points of of Imp. Renew for it.  I also don&#8217;t take Desperate Prayer (I trust my healers :D), which puts me at 4/5 Soul Warding.  For Firefighter, that plus self bubbles plus pally aura and GotW just help so very much.</p>
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		<title>By: Seriah</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Seriah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-99</guid>
		<description>Nice writeup, I&#039;d just add one footnote on Grace, with the change to where it only can be on 1 target at a time several people have just put 1 point in it so that whenever you have to spot heal someone that&#039;s not the tank you have a chance that your Grace stack won&#039;t fall off.  That spare point can go pretty much anywhere you want it, I suggest Imp. Renew if it&#039;s not maxed.

Again, great guide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice writeup, I&#8217;d just add one footnote on Grace, with the change to where it only can be on 1 target at a time several people have just put 1 point in it so that whenever you have to spot heal someone that&#8217;s not the tank you have a chance that your Grace stack won&#8217;t fall off.  That spare point can go pretty much anywhere you want it, I suggest Imp. Renew if it&#8217;s not maxed.</p>
<p>Again, great guide.</p>
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		<title>By: Haruki</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Haruki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-78</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; Pushback reduction is nice, and I have found it handy for fights like Mimiron during Phase 2

You should know that pushback in this phase (Rapid Burst) was removed over 2 months ago.

&gt;&gt; But the magical damage reduction in PvE is pretty much negligible.

This is the real reason I&#039;m commenting. I think you&#039;re opinion is rather naive and severely underestimates the value of this talent. Ulduar for example has, maybe, 3 or 4 of the 14 bosses that don&#039;t do some significant amount of raid wide damage. In Crusader&#039;s Coliseum 3 of the 5 bosses do raid wide damage with a &quot;highly likely&quot; on the other 2. Very quickly,

Ignis - Flame Jets
XT - Tantrum
Iron Council - High Voltage
Kologarn - OOOoooblivion!
Auriaya - Sonic Screech
Hodir - Frozen Blows
Thorim - AOE Frost Bolt, Frost Nova, and possibly Chain Lightning
Freya - Nature&#039;s Fury, Sunbeams, Ground Tremor
Mimiron - Hand Pulse, Rapid Burst, etc.
Vezax - Profound Darkness
Yogg - Debatable because there isn&#039;t technically a raid wide magic hit (I think) but there&#039;s enough random magic flying around that you may get hit
Algalon - Cosmic Smash, Black Holes, Black Hole Explosions

I wouldn&#039;t call that negligible. I&#039;m speaking mainly from a Hard mode perspective but it&#039;s also relevant to up and coming priests (at or below gear level) doing Normal modes.

While this may not be 100% accurate mathematically, think of it this way ... 10% spell damage reduction is equivalent to 10% HP increase. I have 24000 HP raid buffed so that&#039;s an additional 2400 HP. That&#039;s almost 2 Flasks of Stoneblood. Would you call that negligible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; Pushback reduction is nice, and I have found it handy for fights like Mimiron during Phase 2</p>
<p>You should know that pushback in this phase (Rapid Burst) was removed over 2 months ago.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; But the magical damage reduction in PvE is pretty much negligible.</p>
<p>This is the real reason I&#8217;m commenting. I think you&#8217;re opinion is rather naive and severely underestimates the value of this talent. Ulduar for example has, maybe, 3 or 4 of the 14 bosses that don&#8217;t do some significant amount of raid wide damage. In Crusader&#8217;s Coliseum 3 of the 5 bosses do raid wide damage with a &#8220;highly likely&#8221; on the other 2. Very quickly,</p>
<p>Ignis &#8211; Flame Jets<br />
XT &#8211; Tantrum<br />
Iron Council &#8211; High Voltage<br />
Kologarn &#8211; OOOoooblivion!<br />
Auriaya &#8211; Sonic Screech<br />
Hodir &#8211; Frozen Blows<br />
Thorim &#8211; AOE Frost Bolt, Frost Nova, and possibly Chain Lightning<br />
Freya &#8211; Nature&#8217;s Fury, Sunbeams, Ground Tremor<br />
Mimiron &#8211; Hand Pulse, Rapid Burst, etc.<br />
Vezax &#8211; Profound Darkness<br />
Yogg &#8211; Debatable because there isn&#8217;t technically a raid wide magic hit (I think) but there&#8217;s enough random magic flying around that you may get hit<br />
Algalon &#8211; Cosmic Smash, Black Holes, Black Hole Explosions</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t call that negligible. I&#8217;m speaking mainly from a Hard mode perspective but it&#8217;s also relevant to up and coming priests (at or below gear level) doing Normal modes.</p>
<p>While this may not be 100% accurate mathematically, think of it this way &#8230; 10% spell damage reduction is equivalent to 10% HP increase. I have 24000 HP raid buffed so that&#8217;s an additional 2400 HP. That&#8217;s almost 2 Flasks of Stoneblood. Would you call that negligible?</p>
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		<title>By: Hulan</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Hulan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 07:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-70</guid>
		<description>What a great guide!  I wish this had been available when I started levelling Hulan from 70-80.  I switched from Holy to Disc and really struggled at first until I gradually figured things out.  Now I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d know how to heal as Holy any more!  Tam, Disc is a lot of fun but I did find some 5-mans tricky until I got some decent gear.  Loken in HoL is the one that I found the hardest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great guide!  I wish this had been available when I started levelling Hulan from 70-80.  I switched from Holy to Disc and really struggled at first until I gradually figured things out.  Now I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d know how to heal as Holy any more!  Tam, Disc is a lot of fun but I did find some 5-mans tricky until I got some decent gear.  Loken in HoL is the one that I found the hardest.</p>
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		<title>By: Zair</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Zair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 03:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Great guide!  It inspired me to make a few changes to my talent build.  I think it&#039;ll work out for the best!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great guide!  It inspired me to make a few changes to my talent build.  I think it&#8217;ll work out for the best!</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-68</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed this! I&#039;m leveling up a weird combo of disc/holy (tier 1)/shadow (for mindflay cuz I pvp alot) and have had a hard time choosing talents. I do it all - solo, pvp, and heal in groups, and your guide allowed me to make better choices.  I&#039;m level 63 now.  Once I&#039;m 80, I&#039;m going disc hard core.  Its as much fun as my resto druid main!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed this! I&#8217;m leveling up a weird combo of disc/holy (tier 1)/shadow (for mindflay cuz I pvp alot) and have had a hard time choosing talents. I do it all &#8211; solo, pvp, and heal in groups, and your guide allowed me to make better choices.  I&#8217;m level 63 now.  Once I&#8217;m 80, I&#8217;m going disc hard core.  Its as much fun as my resto druid main!</p>
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		<title>By: Lilitharien</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Lilitharien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-67</guid>
		<description>@Tam Well, I&#039;m glad I&#039;m tempting you to respec Discipline. You should try it as your offspec and see how you like it!

And yeah, that talent is really nerve-racking. I don&#039;t bother going that far down the Holy tree. Having to put any points in it with a deep-Holy spec would make me very sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Tam Well, I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m tempting you to respec Discipline. You should try it as your offspec and see how you like it!</p>
<p>And yeah, that talent is really nerve-racking. I don&#8217;t bother going that far down the Holy tree. Having to put any points in it with a deep-Holy spec would make me very sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Tam</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Tam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Oh wow, this is a terrific guide and, more than ever, you are tempting me to respec discipline.  I&#039;ve always secretly want to go disc and Tam *looks* like he *should* be a disc priest (how could anyone resist spells like Martyrdom and Penance?!) but I&#039;ve always been holy because it&#039;s *slightly* more flexibile, especially if you&#039;re running a lot of random 5-mans, which I was while I was levelling.

Even as a holy priest, I find &#039;Improved Healing&#039; a really difficult talent to deal with.  The thing is, without it, it makes &#039;greater heal&#039; pretty much non-viable, even if you only cast it while you&#039;re feeling serendipitous.  (When I was messing about with builds - not very well, admittedly - I jettisoned it on principle and then I realised greater heal cost something like 4 years to cast).  But obviously you never ever ever use heal or lesser heal, and as a holy priest, you don&#039;t have access to penance.  Equally I&#039;ve used divine hymn something like 3 times but that&#039;s probably me not taking full advantage of it.

What I&#039;m trying to say here is that it&#039;s a talent that kind of demands you spend a point or two in it, but seems to give you very little return, regardless of whether you&#039;re disc or holy.  Gah!  Worst of all possible worlds.

Sorry, this is totally epic and a bit about holy healing which you probably don&#039;t care about :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh wow, this is a terrific guide and, more than ever, you are tempting me to respec discipline.  I&#8217;ve always secretly want to go disc and Tam *looks* like he *should* be a disc priest (how could anyone resist spells like Martyrdom and Penance?!) but I&#8217;ve always been holy because it&#8217;s *slightly* more flexibile, especially if you&#8217;re running a lot of random 5-mans, which I was while I was levelling.</p>
<p>Even as a holy priest, I find &#8216;Improved Healing&#8217; a really difficult talent to deal with.  The thing is, without it, it makes &#8216;greater heal&#8217; pretty much non-viable, even if you only cast it while you&#8217;re feeling serendipitous.  (When I was messing about with builds &#8211; not very well, admittedly &#8211; I jettisoned it on principle and then I realised greater heal cost something like 4 years to cast).  But obviously you never ever ever use heal or lesser heal, and as a holy priest, you don&#8217;t have access to penance.  Equally I&#8217;ve used divine hymn something like 3 times but that&#8217;s probably me not taking full advantage of it.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m trying to say here is that it&#8217;s a talent that kind of demands you spend a point or two in it, but seems to give you very little return, regardless of whether you&#8217;re disc or holy.  Gah!  Worst of all possible worlds.</p>
<p>Sorry, this is totally epic and a bit about holy healing which you probably don&#8217;t care about :)</p>
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		<title>By: BobTurkey</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>BobTurkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-65</guid>
		<description>Great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://divineaegis.com/2009/09/07/l2disc-talents/comment-page-1/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://divineaegis.haecceity.nu/?p=130#comment-62</guid>
		<description>I agree with everything you mentioned here. Currently testing out a built with 3/3 in Improved Healing, since I never used Renew anyway. Not really sure what I think of it so far. A Greater Heal when under the effect of Burrowed Time is nice, but that is about the only time I use it. 

Inspiration no longer increases armor, it reduces physical damage taken by 10% instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with everything you mentioned here. Currently testing out a built with 3/3 in Improved Healing, since I never used Renew anyway. Not really sure what I think of it so far. A Greater Heal when under the effect of Burrowed Time is nice, but that is about the only time I use it. </p>
<p>Inspiration no longer increases armor, it reduces physical damage taken by 10% instead.</p>
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